From jsailing at netonecom.net Thu Jan 24 13:46:48 2008 From: jsailing at netonecom.net (Jasmine Sailing) Date: Thu Jan 24 13:45:35 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? Message-ID: <4798DD18.9080007@netonecom.net> I've been getting phlebotomized every Friday at the cancer center (no, I don't have cancer, I have hemochromatosis). When I was at the reading at Westside Books, I told Brian and Ed I should just start doing torture readings again -- get cut up and leeched, and when people look at us like we're insane I'll say "It's medicinal!". Torture readings are a lot more fun, really. -- Te wo Tsunaide '07: A Pair Go Tournament Saturday, December 1st, in Boulder Colorado http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/PairGo Also home of the Te wo Tsunaide photo archive! Contact: Jasmine Sailing, jsailing@netonecom.net From mont.segur at yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 13:51:53 2008 From: mont.segur at yahoo.com (Montsegur) Date: Thu Jan 24 13:52:00 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <4798DD18.9080007@netonecom.net> Message-ID: <53878.90148.qm@web58810.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Wow, that brought back a 30 year old memory of my first job. I was working a project on a wildlife reserve. My task was to apply a glue-like substance to the poles upon which houses for ducks were attached. The glue-stuff was designed to defeat snakes that climbed the poles and ate the duck eggs. So, with waders on, I waded into the pond and applied the glue to the pole. I was very careful in that pond as I could feel the slippery clay underneath and recall being amazed at seeing huge leeches in the water, trying to attach themselves to the waders I was wearing. I had never realized the ponds of Georgia had leeches...those things looked like something out of a National Geographic special on the tropics. Biermeister --- Jasmine Sailing wrote: > I've been getting phlebotomized every Friday at the > cancer > center (no, I don't have cancer, I have > hemochromatosis). > > When I was at the reading at Westside Books, I told > Brian > and Ed I should just start doing torture readings > again > -- get cut up and leeched, and when people look at > us > like we're insane I'll say "It's medicinal!". > > Torture readings are a lot more fun, really. > > -- > Te wo Tsunaide '07: A Pair Go Tournament > Saturday, December 1st, in Boulder Colorado > http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/PairGo > Also home of the Te wo Tsunaide photo archive! > Contact: Jasmine Sailing, jsailing@netonecom.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Cpaod-discuss mailing list > Cpaod-discuss@mailman.netonecom.net > http://lists.netonecom.net/mailman/listinfo/cpaod-discuss > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From jsailing at netonecom.net Sun Jan 27 10:48:35 2008 From: jsailing at netonecom.net (Jasmine Sailing) Date: Sun Jan 27 10:47:10 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <32017205.1201201081515.JavaMail.root@m03> References: <32017205.1201201081515.JavaMail.root@m03> Message-ID: <479CA7D3.5060006@netonecom.net> Montsegur wrote: > wearing. I had never realized the ponds of Georgia > had leeches...those things looked like something out > of a National Geographic special on the tropics. > I can see it, Georgia is such a wet state. When we were in Atlanta, I didn't wade into a pool and get myself leeched... obviously should have (even my step-dad was wondering if it was possibly good in a way when I was cutting myself)... but we felt like we didn't need to drink water because we were always swimming in it in the air. I remember coming back to Denver, being on the bus and thinking "Wow, Denver is really dry and dirty". I suppose the grime just kind of rolls off the building walls and down the gutters there. The phlebotomy last Friday (2 days ago) just did not go well at well, so I definitely would've preferred something more fun. ={ (Here I am, needing to be bled, and Gene's blowing me off, heh.) My blood didn't feel like coming out, it took at least 1/2 hour, my arm was completely purple for at least half of it. Then my arm started spasming, and that was making me nervous -- feeling that big needle sliding around. Once, many years ago, a doctor overshot my vein and there was blood pooling everywhere in my arm. So I can't help but feel really fucking paranoid about that. I started needing to fight off anxiety attacks. Then I got through it and got my ferritin test for the week before, as well as my CBC for that week, and my ferritin levels had been about 124 higher! Probably from stored ferritin starting to come out of my organs, but I'm not sure. So much for having an end to this in reasonable sight (I had been hoping I would only need to do this every week for a few months). It hurt my feelings. I went to the restroom and started crying. But I felt seriously messed up. Amara had come home because her foot hurt. When I got home I put on music, tried to lay down, started retching, started crying again. Bruce walked in with bananas, I asked for one... and said I was probably creeping Amara out and she picked a bad day to come home from school. Then Bruce needed to go to work, so I said I was fine. Probably didn't look too terribly fine, but who hasn't seen me looking a little insane. ;) NOT FUN!!!! I would rather just cut myself, but then there's the scarring. Not that my arm doesn't look like a junkie mess right now, but it's only one area. My arm looks like a keyboard port. ;) (Ron and Peggy were over yesterday, I showed them my arm. Then Ron said something else looked like a port, so I laughed and asked if my arm looked like one. Probably does, really, except the holes are too big.) I think I'll just need to start sedating myself for this. A bummer, because I finally got off Valium. *SIGH* *Off to wade in ponds in Georgia* -- Te wo Tsunaide '07: A Pair Go Tournament Saturday, December 1st, in Boulder Colorado http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/PairGo Also home of the Te wo Tsunaide photo archive! Contact: Jasmine Sailing, jsailing@netonecom.net From mont.segur at yahoo.com Sun Jan 27 11:00:58 2008 From: mont.segur at yahoo.com (Montsegur) Date: Sun Jan 27 11:01:42 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <479CA7D3.5060006@netonecom.net> Message-ID: <841876.33776.qm@web58801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Someone else wrote me this week to say they were having attacks of nerves and retching as a result. You sound like you're having an awful time, I hope your health improves. I just raised a glass of wine in your direction and wished for your health to get better. Ah, the grime in Georgia, I think it is simply taken in by some of the residents and it darkens their hearts. I always liked the dry air of the front range. --- Jasmine Sailing wrote: > Montsegur wrote: > > wearing. I had never realized the ponds of > Georgia > > had leeches...those things looked like something > out > > of a National Geographic special on the tropics. > > > > I can see it, Georgia is such a wet state. When we > were in > Atlanta, I didn't wade into a pool and get myself > leeched... > obviously should have (even my step-dad was > wondering if it > was possibly good in a way when I was cutting > myself)... but > we felt like we didn't need to drink water because > we were > always swimming in it in the air. I remember coming > back > to Denver, being on the bus and thinking "Wow, > Denver is > really dry and dirty". I suppose the grime just > kind of > rolls off the building walls and down the gutters > there. > > The phlebotomy last Friday (2 days ago) just did not > go well > at well, so I definitely would've preferred > something more > fun. ={ (Here I am, needing to be bled, and Gene's > blowing > me off, heh.) My blood didn't feel like coming out, > it took > at least 1/2 hour, my arm was completely purple for > at least > half of it. Then my arm started spasming, and that > was making > me nervous -- feeling that big needle sliding > around. Once, > many years ago, a doctor overshot my vein and there > was blood > pooling everywhere in my arm. So I can't help but > feel really > fucking paranoid about that. > > I started needing to fight off anxiety attacks. > Then I got > through it and got my ferritin test for the week > before, as > well as my CBC for that week, and my ferritin levels > had been > about 124 higher! Probably from stored ferritin > starting to > come out of my organs, but I'm not sure. So much > for having > an end to this in reasonable sight (I had been > hoping I would > only need to do this every week for a few months). > It hurt > my feelings. I went to the restroom and started > crying. > > But I felt seriously messed up. Amara had come home > because > her foot hurt. When I got home I put on music, > tried to lay > down, started retching, started crying again. Bruce > walked > in with bananas, I asked for one... and said I was > probably > creeping Amara out and she picked a bad day to come > home from > school. Then Bruce needed to go to work, so I said > I was fine. > Probably didn't look too terribly fine, but who > hasn't seen me > looking a little insane. ;) > > NOT FUN!!!! I would rather just cut myself, but > then there's > the scarring. Not that my arm doesn't look like a > junkie mess > right now, but it's only one area. My arm looks > like a keyboard > port. ;) (Ron and Peggy were over yesterday, I > showed them my > arm. Then Ron said something else looked like a > port, so I > laughed and asked if my arm looked like one. > Probably does, > really, except the holes are too big.) > > I think I'll just need to start sedating myself for > this. A > bummer, because I finally got off Valium. *SIGH* > > *Off to wade in ponds in Georgia* > > -- > Te wo Tsunaide '07: A Pair Go Tournament > Saturday, December 1st, in Boulder Colorado > http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/PairGo > Also home of the Te wo Tsunaide photo archive! > Contact: Jasmine Sailing, jsailing@netonecom.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Cpaod-discuss mailing list > Cpaod-discuss@mailman.netonecom.net > http://lists.netonecom.net/mailman/listinfo/cpaod-discuss > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From jsailing at netonecom.net Sun Jan 27 11:49:25 2008 From: jsailing at netonecom.net (Jasmine Sailing) Date: Sun Jan 27 11:48:15 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <23007719.1201449755982.JavaMail.root@m03> References: <23007719.1201449755982.JavaMail.root@m03> Message-ID: <479CB615.4090001@netonecom.net> Montsegur wrote: > Someone else wrote me this week to say they were > having attacks of nerves and retching as a result. > I have that problem, too, but in that particular case I was retching from needing to eat. I do that, too. If I'm hungry I first start coughing, then retching, and if I'm not quick enough I might even start vomiting. I was eating during the phlebotomy, but it's a lot of blood sugar loss (and all kinds of things loss) to keep up with. Normally I bring a multi- vitamin and a banana, but I'd noticed with some horror that we were out of bananas... I expect I look like someone who liked beer too much. Trying to get the iron out of my liver, etc, easily hypoglycemic... Kind of sucks, since I was never a frequent drinker, I was moreso a binger too often when I did drink. I haven't been drinking at home since my early 20s, it's only a social thing for me. Almost as soon as I hit the legal drinking age, I was only drinking at bars, parties, and conventions. Before that you need to sneak and drink anywhere you can. ;) It seems a bit ironic that some of the heaviest beer swilling countries are also the most prominent countries for the hemochromatosis gene mutation (hence, they're more likely to firmly regret the beer swilling). I wonder if another gene mutation for over-enjoying iron-heavy beer developed as a result of iron-insufficent diets and simply hasn't been discovered yet. I've been thinking maybe what triggered hemochromatosis in me was that I was borderline anemic when I was 12. After that I didn't get more blood tests, but I declared myself fully vegetarian when I was 14. So if I'd already been borderline, the odds are strong that I was fully anemic after that. It seems like that could've caused the gene mutations to activate and start sucking in as much iron as possible. Has the biermeister gotten his serum ferritin checked? > I just raised a glass of wine in your direction and wished for your health to get better. > Oh, sure, just taunt me with that thing! ;) I'm hoping to not drink at all during the de-ironing, because I don't want to drag it out any longer than necessary. Haven't had any alcohol since September at this point. That's not at all unusual for me, but getting off Valium on top of it... I feel rather undrugged! (Still taking beta blockers, but that's about it. Well, certain pipe use...) My health should be steadily improving. Iron was the last flag in my tests that I was worried about. HOPEFULLY this is finally the last problem to contend with for a while. I would've been terribly surprised if I hadn't needed to struggle with much damage after everything I used to do (not to mention things I still sometimes do). I'm trying to take care of as much of it as possible while our insurance is good. > Ah, the grime in Georgia, I think it is simply taken > in by some of the residents and it darkens their > hearts. I always liked the dry air of the front > range. > If all of Georgia got paved like Atlanta, it would all be slime and trail off the walls into the gutters everywhere. I could use some moisture right now, phlebotomies are a bit dehydrating. Interesting quandary, since you're supposed to drink juice and eat while getting phlebotomized... yet vitamin C will increase iron absorption, so you aren't supposed to drink juice within a couple of hours of eating. Last time I chugged 3 juices and nibbled at a bag of Chex mix (whatever free food and juice they have at the cancer center), the juice was probably enabling converting and absorbing the none-heme iron from the grain. Getting it sucked out and sucking it right back in! Ah well. They also had brownies sitting out, I ate 2 of them while I moped and recovered. I told Bruce "Hey, I just got 650 calories removed. This is only 400 calories!" ;) Next I'll be using that to justify pigging out on a rich Devil's Food chocolate cake every Friday. ;) (Uh, I need to re-elevate my blood sugar! Let us not point out that a potato or pasta would be the practical way to go.) -- Te wo Tsunaide '07: A Pair Go Tournament Saturday, December 1st, in Boulder Colorado http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/PairGo Also home of the Te wo Tsunaide photo archive! Contact: Jasmine Sailing, jsailing@netonecom.net From mont.segur at yahoo.com Sun Jan 27 12:10:04 2008 From: mont.segur at yahoo.com (Montsegur) Date: Sun Jan 27 12:10:30 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <479CB615.4090001@netonecom.net> Message-ID: <477720.76186.qm@web58801.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Has the biermeister gotten his serum ferritin checked? No, I haven't. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get a full physical at my age. I can identify with your eating / drinking quandries. I finally identified the cause of many of my gut problems; my system is fairly fiber-intolerant. I changed to more of a "white everything" diet (rice, bread, etc) and also found a magic pill in the form of what the Germans call a Mettwurst, a kind of sausage sold in the butcher shops here. Something about the Mettwurst calms down my digestion, so much that I've even been able to reduce my intake of Nexium. But yeah, I have to watch what I eat and drink. Yeast-heavy wheat beers are a thing of the past, they were wrecking my guts. Fortunately, I can still drink Pils-type beers and wine. But drinking is far more occasional for me these days, it just doesn't taste as good as it used to. Caffeine is also a thing of the past. I miss it insofar as I used to enjoy quality coffee. Other than having a bit more wisdom these days, getting older is not really fun. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From jsailing at netonecom.net Mon Jan 28 11:46:36 2008 From: jsailing at netonecom.net (Jasmine Sailing) Date: Mon Jan 28 11:45:08 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <29777585.1201453962150.JavaMail.root@m03> References: <29777585.1201453962150.JavaMail.root@m03> Message-ID: <479E06EC.8010209@netonecom.net> Montsegur wrote: > No, I haven't. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get > a full physical at my age. > At least here in the US they don't check ferritin as part of a normal physical (have to ask). Maybe they do in Germany, I have no idea. It's amazing how much they blow it off here, with how dangerous it can be. No one ever mentioned high iron to me. When I started keeping copies of my blood tests, I asked several doctors and specialists about my high iron. It wasn't very high, they all kept saying it was nothing. I wasn't sure it wasn't alcohol related, so I kept an eye on it for a while. Then I decided I should get screened for hemochromatosis (iron wouldn't always be that high if it was alcohol since I'm a sporadic drinker, and of course hemochromatosis is prevalent in European Caucasian ancestry -- 10% chance of being a carrier of the gene mutations). So I called a hemotologist and dropped copies of a few years worth of my tests off there. He was terribly surprised that I self-referred in and wanted to be screened for it. No known family history (though I now think this is what killed my Mom, and likely her Dad too, and who knows who else... since I have 2 copies of the mutation, I got it from both parents) and no doctor recommendation, I guess it's unusual to decide you may have it. But I'm very blue blood, I'm largely vegetarian, I'm not silly enough to supplement iron (only kids, pregnant women, and iron-deficient anemics should do that), and my iron is a little high. Made perfect sense to me to check for hemochromatosis. And to rule out leukemia markers, which were fortunately ruled out. (Clarification: my iron is a little high, my ferritin is VERY high. Ferritin is the more sensitive marker because it is the storage form of iron.) When I finally got to go in and see the hemotologist (after I dropped my tests off, they had me come give blood for the screening tests... since hemotologists are oncologists and you need to go to a cancer center for this, they're busy with more sick people and won't see you unless they really really have a good reason for it) I was handed copies of the tests while waiting. So I bugged my eyes a bit over the serum ferritin and everything, and saw that I was indeed homozygous for the hemochromatosis mutations. I cried for a minute, because I knew I was in for a lot of fun with phlebotomies, and I was worried about organ damage, then managed to recompose myself before the doctor finally appeared. So he was very surprised that I'd figured it out myself (it is normally either not noticed and just kills people, a silent killer, or it is noticed in men after the age of 40 and women when they're post-menopausal since they stop losing iron then... normal doctors only look for low iron in case it is anemia or very very very high iron in case it is leukemia), then I started rambling about my tests without noticing that my lab geekness was showing. ;) So he said I obviously know my jargon and proceed to speak clinically. Yeah, I'm a weird patient. I thought, but didn't say, "Yeah, I'm pretty on the ball. I need to be, since my doctors never are". Problem being, in this case, I really wanted to be wrong. I told the universe after it was too late that I do not mind being wrong sometimes. *sigh* Then I got my first weekly phlebotomy, and went home and emailed everyone on both sides of the family to let them know they're all at least carriers for the gene mutation. Just being a carrier doesn't necessarily mean anything, except that if you have kids you want to worry about their other biological parent being a carrier. Even being lucky enough to be homozygous like me (means you got copies of it from both parents) doesn't mean anything (fortunately my sister's ferritin is fine so far), it needs to be triggered. So like I said... I'm thinking it may have been teenage anemia that triggered it with me. The gene mutation was a result of iron-insufficient diets, so being iron deficient seems like it would trigger it. My best guess is that being borderline anemic, and then likely fully anemic after being a vegetarian for a while, would've done it. With my Mom... she got a hysterectomy after I was born. She did that because she lost way too much blood while menstruating, sometimes to the point of needing transfusions. Losing so much blood could've easily caused her to be anemic as a teenager too. It's just a theory, but if I'm right I think it's key to make sure Amara doesn't become anemic as a teen. Our bodies try to tackle the problem, and boy does it ever backfire. (Iron overload, btw, causes cirrhosis of the liver, early heart attacks, osteoarthritis, multiple sclerosis - me me! - hypothyroidism, diabetes, and all kinds of fun stuff.) It's both interesting and sad to stumble across this, since I wanted to find out what killed my Mom. If it was this, it would've nailed her hard after the hysterectomy. So it makes sense. Also because she had arthritis, tendonitis, brucitis, unexplained peripheral neuropathy, and she died young from a heart attack. It all adds up. The hemotologist thought it was likely, too, that this is what got her. So if that's the case I'm glad I figured it out, I very very badly wanted to know. As far as drinking... Alcohol piles iron up in the blood and obviously liver fast enough as it is. So if you have hemochromatosis it'll be a lot worse, I could get liver cirrhosis a lot faster than alcoholics. My liver is not swollen (though it does have a lot of iron in it, as do my pancreas and spleen and probably my heart and joints), so hopefully I noticed it early enough. While feeling morose about not being able to drink (sometimes introverts like me need to take a sledgehammer to their lack of social abilities), I joked "Ok. So alcohol raises your iron, but hard liquor isn't as bad as beer, and tea lowers your iron absorption... so that means I need to drink Long Island Iced Teas!". ;) After I get de-ironed I probably can do that every now and then. Helps that I don't pig out on red meat like a lot of this country. I have no need for steaks and burgers. > good as it used to. Caffeine is also a thing of the > past. I miss it insofar as I used to enjoy quality > coffee. > Geeze, nothing's prying me away from coffee any time soon. Or chocolate! I need to have SOME joy in life! ;) I can't drink as much coffee as I used to, and trying to drink it while I was getting off Valium was difficult. But I'm sitting here drinking my precious coffee right now, like I do every morning. Had way too much at the club yesterday, couldn't fall asleep until after 4am. Though part of that was from things making me too mentally hyperactive. When my breast cysts were causing a lot of pain I was told "If you want it to hurt less, cut down on chocolate and coffee". Immediate thought: "Uh... the pain's not so bad, I can handle it...". > Other than having a bit more wisdom these days, > getting older is not really fun. > It sucks!!! But it's better than the current alternative. They should be coming along with research well enough to stop this, damn it. ;) Party all we want, because we can just pop in clone replacement organs. ;) (Yeah, that sounds a touch irresponsible. Probably bad from the Cnidarian viewpoint, because people wouldn't die enough. I should talk to Bud, figure this out and write a sermon. We should all just go the lemming route straight over a cliff anyway.) -- Te wo Tsunaide '07: A Pair Go Tournament Saturday, December 1st, in Boulder Colorado http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/PairGo Also home of the Te wo Tsunaide photo archive! Contact: Jasmine Sailing, jsailing@netonecom.net From freakyzappo at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 00:06:40 2008 From: freakyzappo at yahoo.com (Laszlo Panaflex) Date: Tue Jan 29 00:07:07 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] public Lynching Message-ID: <23071.81812.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Clean Up New York http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZSWv90msTUc and a bit of fun... Goofy At Heart http://youtube.com/watch?v=z7baCckh-XE ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From mont.segur at yahoo.com Tue Jan 29 10:53:24 2008 From: mont.segur at yahoo.com (Montsegur) Date: Tue Jan 29 10:53:42 2008 Subject: [Cpaod-discuss] leeches? In-Reply-To: <479E06EC.8010209@netonecom.net> Message-ID: <840440.72443.qm@web58811.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- Jasmine Sailing wrote: >We should all just go >the lemming route straight over a cliff anyway. Hey, sounds good to me! We'll all hold hands and jump together ... You're fortunate to have found this ferritin problem and I'd bet you are correct about the role you suspect it played in your mother's death. My parents were always near-mum on family medical problems. Every once in a great while, my mother will let something slip. Wow, you haven't written this much in a while. It's good to hear from you again :) Cheers ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs